2008 General Council Agenda…Item #2

The process adopted by our forefathers and used for many years stipulates that the Executive Council in session with the International Executive Committee determines the agenda for the General Council of Ordained Bishops.  This process is very fluid and from my viewpoint is quite comprehensive. There is a need to make this process more transparent so that a larger percentage of persons can understand how the church works in this regard but as it presently stands items for the agenda are generated through the work of the Executive Council which meets at present three times per year for one week each meeting.  In the course of our work, items arise which are determined to be necessary for inclusion on the agenda.  They are placed in the care of the AGENDA COMMITTEE which this term was chaired by Bishop John Childers.  This group meets throughout the whole two year period, refining, reviewing and recommending. They report to the Executive Council each meeting and any items which have come to them since the last meeting are placed in our care for direction and disposition.  

Another way items get on the agenda is through letters and recommendations sent to the Executive Council from pastors, leaders and laity throughout the world where the Church of God operates. I was amazed how many things are sent to the Council from the “field”.  In some cases, the items were referred to the Agenda Committee for research and report and in other cases, they were determined not to be in the interest of the church and were tabled or dismissed by vote.  It is interesting to know that any letter, recommendation or items addressed to the Executive Council comes to that council without action or interference!  Some may have assumed a screening of these items but each time we met, in my notebook was a section that contained copies of the original letter or recommendation written to the group from a pastor, lay leader, young person etc.  These are read by all the members and are part of the agenda for our meetings each time. In this aspect, it is a very open process.  I’ve had some to complain that they do not know what items have been sent and that is true. There is no posting of items written to the Council and it was my feeling that the authors specifically wrote to the council and that it was the responsibility of the originator to disseminate his thoughts publicly, should he/she wish.  

For what it is worth, there were more than 60 items submitted to the Council this term for the agenda which contains 24 items.

Item #2 REALIGNMENT OF RESOURCES will prove to be one of the pivotal pieces of this assembly because of its implications through the USA churches.  At present, COG congregations in foreign countries do not contribute to the USA offices. From what I know, they contribute 10% of their tithes to the territorial offices (our state offices) and 10% of the funds that come to those offices are tithed (10%) to their national offices.

In the USA, we agree that our churches will contribute 7.5% of their tithes to International Offices and 7.5% of tithes to the respective state offices where they are.  There is an additional breakdown of these funds in that 2.5% of the funds sent to International Offices are designated for World Missions and are used for the administrative work of that department.  The budget of World Missions from this fund also supports Field Directors of the major regions of the world, educational institutions, orphanages, mission representatives who raise WM funds and general operation, including media, travel, etc.  These funds are annually 13 million dollars. In addition, donations for missionaries and specific projects total 19 million and none of these funds are used for operation or administration, but go 100% as intended to the field and ministry.

The remaining 5% of funds sent to International Offices are used for all other ministries of the church.  This includes all the Bible schools/universities we have in the US and Canada, all the funding for Retired ministers, widows and disabled ministers, all departmental budgets (excluding World Missions), general operation of buildings, promotion, travel, media, employee compensation, and debt reduction, to name a few. These funds total 26 million annually. 

There has been a significant and noteworthy call from the churches to downsize the percentage of funds coming from the local churches to international and state offices.  In the last assembly, the General Council of Ordained Bishops approved a reduction which was later reversed by the vote of the General Assembly. However, there is a general church-wide feeling we need to get this done in this term so we can adjust and move ahead. The linger distractions of this issue are styming the work of the Great Commission, in my opinion.

As it is presented, the measure reads…

That, beginning January 1, 2010, local churches shall raise an offering equal to 2% of the tithes received to be sent monthly to the secretary general. Further, that this required offering be decreased by ½% biennially until January 1, 2018.

Proposed Reduction Scale:

  • January 1, 2010 – 2%
  • January 1, 2012 – 1½%
  • January 1, 2014 – 1%
  • January 1, 2016 – ½%
  • January 1, 2018 – 0% 
There is an accompanying motion in this measure which addresses the state/territories separately.  It provides for each region to determine the pace of the reduction but stipulates it shall not go faster than the timetable for the international offices.  Simply put, if this measure passes, then in the fall ministers’ meetings in each state and territory, the measure will be voted and determined as to the rate of reduction and how much.
As it is presently constructed, the World Missions department would be part of a Unified Budget within our international offices and would be funded with a percentage of the total funds coming into International Offices. This is the way all other departments are funded–by submitting a budget which is approved by the Executive Council in the Spring of each year prior to the budget term.  Monthly allocations from the tithe fund would then be transferred to the World Missions operational funds in the same fashion as all other departments in our church.
This measure will have significant implications for the way our church funds ministry and departmental appropriations.  Already, a 20% reduction in department budgets has been approved by the Executive Council for ‘09 (as outlined in the agenda explanation).  The trusteeship of finances will require great leadership and planning.  
For the local church, the reduction will mean 2.5% of tithes will remain from the reports sent to International and depending on the region/state and what the ministers in that state determine up to an additional 2.5% will remain from state reports.  It is hoped that growth patterns in our churches and improvement in the economy will help to offset the reduction as it did in the 70s/80s when the last reduction occurred. In that season, the church experienced great growth and the reductions were productive for all.  In a church whose monthly tithe is $5,000 per month, the reduction will mean $125 per month to international or $1,500 annually when the full reduction is complete.  As presented, in the first reduction, the savings to the same church would be $25 per month to each report.
What are your thoughts on this measure?  
Leave a comment.

26 Comments

jasonisaacs  on June 29th, 2008

As a young (24) minister in the COG, I do not think that is as big an issue as the press it’s getting.

There seems to be a belief from pastors and church leaders that withholding more money for us to keep in house will help us in our local ministries. In order to think this you have to believe a few things….

1. You are using everything that you keep in house now to the fullest of your ability. I think we can all be guilty of wasting money at times in our churches or organizations, etc. More money brought in for people who don’t spend it well just means more wastefulness not more productivity.

2. That a keeper is more blessed than a giver. I’m not an advocate of TBN prosperity garbage, but anyone who has tested the waters of giving knows that God blesses it. I have often wondered what we would say to our people if they told us that they were going to cut back there percentage of tithes they were paying to the church because they felt like they could use the money more effectively locally in their homes. I understand that 7.5% and 7.5% = 15% but I think the principle stands true when we give out of a duty rather than out of a cheerful heart we are wasting our time.

3. That your local state office can continue its ministries and functionality with a 2.5% cut. I have always said that the International Office have very little to do with my local church, but the State office has quite a bit to do with it. It is my belief that the State overseer is the most powerful position in the COG. I know in many of the small states this cut will mean the loss of state youth directors or any staff that is not supported by the Cleveland offices. While I can give convincing arguments that some positions need to be redefined I would hate for small churches to suffer from lack of State Office support because some of us larger church want to keep a couple hundred bucks.

I do not get a vote at this assembly because for some reason the majority of ministers at the last assembly deemed that I was not ready to have a vote ( which to me is a much bigger issue than the TOT issue) but I can honestly say that I haven’t made up my mind on how I would vote yet. To be completely honest I know to many pastors that could triple their annual budget and still couldn’t grow a church, so I just don’t know that it’s that simple.

At the heart of the issue is a distrust for the way money is spent at the different levels. From useless honorariums, to steaks every night after campmeeting, to secretaries getting paid trips to assembly, excessive motel rooms for state meetings. etc. There is no doubt in my mind that money gets wasted, but before I have picked up a stone to throw we have tried to make changes at our local church with reimbursements and food money etc. I would encourage all of us to do the same.

One more thing….( I know I have preached a sermon, but I am almost done) This is going to sound very old school COG but I am passionate about this issue. I don’t believe that ANY PASTOR who is not sending in their full TOT from their church, or ANY PASTOR who has encouraged there people to pay to general fund, or ANY PASTOR who has categorized there money so they can send in less should be allowed to vote on this issue. And that includes any (Council of 18 members) I think the most hypocritical thing a person could do, would be to accuse a Leader of “misappropriation of funds” and they are being dishonest or sneaky by bending a system they say they love. I believe integrity lies at the heart of every issue and this is no different.

pastornccog  on June 29th, 2008

I am looking forward to your post on the agenda for I have many questions. I know that the COG is a mission minded church and I don’t want to see missions lose money, but why has the US bore the brunt of funding world missions and is it possible for national offices to give a percentage while we decrease ours so that the church as a whole supports world missions? Or should we learn to live on ten percent as the rest of the world has?

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Jerry Lawson  on July 2nd, 2008

Either intentionally or unintentionally the Council of 18 has once again pitted the local church’s need to keep ministry dollars in their local communities against their heart for world missions. This same issue divided the denomination two years ago and is sure to do it again this summer. So it leaves the voting members of the GA wondering if this is just a difficult and divisive issue or if this is a ploy to, once again, be sure that no reduction is realized by the denominational offices.

It has now been four years since the Executive Committee buried Mike Chapman’s motion and kept us from voting on this issue. And as hard as I am trying not to be cynical, a little voice keeps telling me that the arrangement of this item is simply “more of the same.” I am left to wonder if the Council of 18 is really trying to present something that we can ever agree to.

Jerry Lawson  on July 2nd, 2008

Just a few thoughts about Jason Isaacs’ comments.

1. Thanks for participating in the dialogue. I truly believe that your generation will be the defining generation of the Church of God.

2. You stated that in order for a pastor to believe that cutting the TOT would actually help his church he would have to believe, “You are using everything that you keep in house now to the fullest of your ability.” That simply is not true. I only have to be doing a better job than state and general offices. And THAT I am about as sure of as I am John 3:16! (well, almost).

3. You also stated that I would have to believe that “a keeper is more blessed than a giver.” Jason, you must realize that the kingdom of God is MUCH bigger than the COG. And a church’s giving is not simply defined by how much they send to Cleveland.

4. You also mention that the State Overseer is the most powerful position in the COG. Personally, I believe it is the pastor. I grew up in a COG that never averaged over 40 in attendance (17 years I attended there). I served as youth pastor in churches ranging in size from 100-500. I have pastored a church of less than 100 and now pastor a church of over 1,200 and the involvement from the State office has been the same at all stops in my journey…negligible!

5. I fully agree with you that any pastor who would lie about their TOT (or anything else, for that matter) does not deserve a vote, nor does he deserve his position as pastor.

billisaacs  on July 2nd, 2008

Jerry,

Sitting on the council of 18 this time has been a tremendously humbling and learning experience. I’ve seen more than I ever dreamed this guy would see and I’m thankful for the experience. I wish the process was more open and I believe it can be so that you and others will be able to know how this all comes about.

At the same time, I can see why some would think and believe this is a ploy but I sat in meetings for one day and part of another with the leadership of world missions when this measure was crafted and did not get the impression that this measure was a ploy. It was my impression that the EC and the leadership of WM wanted to work together to find a way to reduce the funding to Cleveland and provide a cut to the churches.

Believe me, the guys on the C-18 are responsive to what they believe pastors like you want. First item of business after the last assembly was how to plan for the cut and it is my understanding that the EC determined they would need the help of WM after what happened last time to get it done.

As you may know, Director Roland Vaughn has for some time been advocating a “do away” with the 2.5% so that the WM would be funded with donations…so he would seem to have been on board earlier than most. In fact, he once told me that he feels WM will be a better department when they go back to trusting God fully for all they have! I love his heart and when I hear him talk I feel I’m listening to a man who has given his soul to the work of evangelism in this world.

So in response to your thought, I think the leadership is trying to get a cut and they feel this is the best way to do it. Keep in mind there was no referral of this motion back, nor any promise to return it after it lost last time and there are some who pushed hard not to have it on the agenda…but again, the C-18 knew the guys on the field wanted a cut so it is on the agenda for that reason.

GH is getting ready for the cut because we have cut the budgets of all departments 20% beginning September 1. The cut is coming…

Jerry Lawson  on July 2nd, 2008

I really think that a major key to making this proposal happen will be for the WM department to be seen as one of the “champions” of this cause. I will be surprised to see this because at last General Assembly it seemed like they were clearly opposed to this cut.

I agree that the cut is coming, one way or another. The C-18 would have made the mistake of their lives if they had not put this on the agenda this year. Bill, I talk to leading pastors every day that are so frustrated with COG leadership that the slightest misstep will cause them to go off. I hope I do not get that way. I want to view each situation as it arises and be fair in my judgment. But one thing is certain; the frustration level is at a dangerous place right now.

Darrell Buttram, Jr.  on July 4th, 2008

Bishop Bill,

Thanks for hosting this dialogue. I think it is a great opportunity to share thoughts, blow off steam, and formulate responses before we get to San Antonio, and I greatly appreciate it. I also appreciate all the hard work that you and the council and committee members have put into this agenda.

That said, let me dive into this particular item from my own personal perspective.

In my studying for marital counseling I’ve found that the top two reasons for a marriage ending in divorce are: 1.) lack of communication and 2.) financial disagreements. Usually number 2 is in someway tied into number 1.

I believe these two factors also play into the corporate structure and spiritual structure of our church. I especially believe these factors will be involved in the outcome of this agenda item as it is currently presented.

The communication regarding this item is very lopsided. I’m glad to hear what Brother Vaughn told you, but I need to hear in detail how this is going to affect over 80% of our church members which are outside the US and those who minister to them, not only after this Assembly, but 10 years from now.

In the absence of that kind of communication, the Pandora’s Box of speculation is threatening to kill this motion. Will our missionaries be responsible for paying stateside administrative costs as in other missionary organizations? Will we be pressured into taking up special offerings to support our administrative personnel? Will the other departments continue to cut their budgets over the next 10 years at the same rate by which World Missions will have to cut theirs? Again the speculations are running rampant.

There are other areas that should be dealt with to be good stewards of what God has entrusted into our care. Changing from a biennial to a triennial or quadrennial assembly would save multiple millions of dollars to all departments (especially World Missions) and local churches without having to take away the only part of tithe that is specifically designated by the General Assembly in where it should go.

If this motion is going to pass, it needs to be not only supported by Missions, but it needs to be communicated by Missions as well. Until that day comes, I am afraid we are just requiring someone else to make the sacrifices which we ourselves are unwilling to make.

I truly do respect you and those who have worked to put this agenda together. I know that when the change of finances and re-alignment finally come down someone somewhere is going to feel the brunt of the pain. I would rather take that pain myself than pass it on to those who truly need it more than me. So I would rather keep sacrificing the extra 2.5% than to cause World Missions to have to cut their administrative budgets by more than 60% in ten years.

Sorry this is so long, but it weighs heavy on me.

Again thanks for this forum, and thanks for your thoughts.

In Him,

Darrell Buttram, Jr.

billisaacs  on July 5th, 2008

Darrell,

Good points and I don’t know if I can answer many of them. I do believe that all the church is coming to embrace the mindset that less is going to denominational structures, including missions and more is going to be used at the local church for mission. That being said, the tension between what is happening and what will happen remains.

Stateside administration of world missions is an interesting study. Just like all areas of ministry, everything is evolving. People are giving to missions now from the standpoint of pastoral advisement, contact or familiarity to the project. Simply put people want to give to something they can touch or visit or know. It may be that we don’t need 15 world missions fund raising reps anymore which would allow for downsizing…just as one example. I know I raise our World Missions offering at camp meeting myself because I don’t feel we can financially afford to bring someone to the camp meeting and our people seem to respond to that better anyway.

Your points are right on but all of us, including yours truly must start thinking new ideas, new concepts and rethink our church in order to raise the level of our effectiveness.

Jason Isaacs  on July 5th, 2008

A couple of thoughts Jerry…..

If the defining point for how much money gets sent to Cleveland is if we are doing a better job with the money than they are, than why send money at all. Couldn’t you use all your money better than them? Or do we tell pastors who are not using money wisely they have to send money in but those of us who are wiser don’t have to?

I just don’t think you can use that as a deciding point. Some pastors are great with money, and some (as we all know a story or 2) are not.

It’s not that I’m an advocate of 15% or 10%, my point is that I believe many pastors are fooling themselves into thinking more money is going to make the difference in their church. I worked at a church one time that really struggled with this myth. They believed that “just one more hire” would make the difference, so they just continued to hire people and tell themselves they were just one hire away.

I understand all of the complaints about wasted money on the admin level, but I still say that the state level TOT is of HUGE importance. It’s kind of like local and state taxes, they provide fire and police, etc. They are so many small churches with no youth pastor, leaders etc. And even though it’s the responsibility of the pastor to fix that, a GOOD state office helps that situation.

One thing that I believe is that if we lowered the TOT to as low as even 5% and required pastors to send in that 5% on everything that came in, I mean everything, the money that comes in to the COG would go up from what it is now.

I would love to see the TOT go to 10% if that would stop the complaining from pastors about the COG robbing them. But I will say that we have to be careful about biting the hands that feeds us. It’s probably not true for you Jerry, but I know lots of pastors who talk like they don’t want a heavy denominational influence, but it was that very denomination that got there name run in the church that they pastor in now, and when there time is up there or “God is leading them to leave” they will call the state office they claim does nothing beneficial and get that overseer to run there name somewhere else. Then they will come into that church and begin to talk about how the denomination is holding them back. Isn’t it very ironic that we don’t like our denomination until we need a church so we don’t lose our well being. ( Like I said probably not true for you, but you are the minority)

P.S. By the way anyone who knows me is very confused why I seem to defending the COG, it’s an odd position for me, but I am just bothered by the hypocrisy of a lot of pastors right now.

travis johnson  on July 5th, 2008

Jason,

You said, “By the way anyone who knows me is very confused why I seem to defending the COG, it’s an odd position for me, but I am just bothered by the hypocrisy of a lot of pastors right now.”

Perhaps, the hypocrisy of pastors who cheat on the tithe (of which I am certainly not one) is only eclipsed by the state offices who fail to spend those monies (EHM Budget) on “new field work and in the case of emergency, small church assistance.” If I hear another denominational official indict a pastor for broken covenant while failing to follow the minutes themselves, I think I’m going to go into anaphylactic shock.

travis johnson  on July 5th, 2008

Bro. Isaacs,

Your comments on World Missions are good. A couple reflections:

1. I have over 200 pages of detailed financials from World Missions…something I have been unable to secure from International Offices, Julian Robinson, or the Executive Committee even though I’m an Ordained Bishop and even though the COG General Assembly Minutes mandate that disclosure to me. With that said, World Missions financials do make a good study. I wish I had the same access to the bigger piece, especially when being asked to make critical decisions at this upcoming General Assembly about the funding of the COG.

2. I agree with you that World Missions is not perfect. We can do better. I could make a list of things to improve. But, if I hold up an “to do list” of World Missions and compare it to my “to do list” for the other 12.5%, it would be a mole hill next to Mount Everest.

Here we are trying to honor the local church, the instrument used by God to advance the Gospel and the only place we can find to cut is the World Missions budget. We’re crazy for that.

Our historical support of this fund, dating back to 1927 and more importantly Matthew 28:19-20 has to have greater weight than making sure we are keeping the multitude of departmental budgets in Cleveland stocked and our state offices continuing to be able to spend the EHM budgets however they like, regardless of the fact that the General Assembly mandates these $13 million+ be spent ONLY on “new field work and in the case of emergency, small church asistance.”

Bro. Isaacs, I just don’t understand it. We can do better.

Jerry Lawson  on July 5th, 2008

Jason, thanks for the response. I love good dialogue from different points of view. That’s how I learn. Your comments brought up a couple of thoughts to my mind:
1. You correctly said that the defining point should not be only that a local pastor does better with the money than Cleveland does. I agree. I only brought up that point in response to your assertion that: “In order to think (that keeping more money in the local church will help local ministry) you have to believe you are using everything that you keep in house now to the fullest of your ability.” I simply stated that I only have to do a better job than Cleveland to think keeping the money will benefit the Great Commission. I stand by that comment.
2. You said: “Many pastors are fooling themselves into thinking more money is going to make the difference in their church. I worked at a church one time that really struggled with this myth. They believed that “just one more hire” would make the difference.” For me, it’s not a myth. I have seen it happen at my current church. I’ve made those crucial hires that have brought in hundreds of new people. It’s not a myth. Some of the money Cleveland & Birmingham is wasting could become a new hire for me and it would bring in the lost.
3. You also mentioned that the COG is “the hand that feeds”. I do agree that the COG has fed me many times. I was saved through the witness of a COG mother, baptized by a COG preacher, first spoke in tongues at a COG youth camp, and received the call to preach while collapsed over a COG altar. That being said, when I had my name run at Glory Hill Church of God, no other pastor even wanted the church. I was the only one who presented my name. The 50 people who voted for me, took what they could get. Now, I believe that God wanted me there, but I wouldn’t say that it was the benevolence of the COG that got me there.
4. While I have not broken my covenant with the COG concerning the Tithe of Tithe (or any other), I do sometimes wonder if the covenant still exists considering the way the COG has ripped it to shreds.

billisaacs  on July 6th, 2008

Travis,

Sometimes there can be a feeling that you are alone in your thoughts and that others do not share your vision. I know for me that has happened before, only to realize that there are others who likewise feel the same but are not comfortable in the environment sharing their thoughts.

If it is any comfort to you, then you should know that many in our church believe the future can be better, that we can be a better church, more focused, led by men/women who possess great character and moral authority. If there is one thing that has marked our church in the rich history is the valuable leaders who have been raised up to help this church advance. The same will be true in our future…God will bring leaders to our church who will advance the kingdom of God in a culture which is moving away from traditional denominational structures. The how and when of this may not be clear but it is coming.

We pray the movement is advanced through this year’s meetings and all of us can leave SA with a sense we are going in the right direction.

Daniel Gore  on July 7th, 2008

In reference to the 2.50/0 that is given to general as well as state my view may seem heretical or uncompassionate. But being a pastor of a small church for some years now and finding out that a portion of the revenues are going for employee compensation drives a dagger into my heart. Here I am in the trenches facing a system of instability not being able sometimes to find funds to pay for social security, retirement and of course the elusive health insurance. There are no funds to turn to, no committee to look to and yet those in supported rolls are being considered with support when the pastor and his family are not preparing for the future. Brethren if you think there is a distance between the general and the local church then you need to go back when you were pastoring smaller churches and you will see there is a distance also in state and local relationships. If only the minutes would be enforced some of these financial difficulties would be avoided.

Tim Pack  on July 7th, 2008

I too, am a pastor of a small church. After 2.5 years of struggle we finally have enough men to qualify for a church and pastor’s council. What budget? I came into a church with a $2500 per month mortgage, taking in about that much in tithes. Its hard to send money when there’s never enough. Yes, I receive a small housing allowance, that’s all. It’s Monday, there were 73 in attendance yesterday and not one of those precious individuals care about the COG(GHQ or SHQ). They are concerned about what is happening at the local church level. Ever had the power company call about cutting off the electricity to the church? I paid it out of my pocket. Yes, the LOCAL church paid me back. We keep sending the TOT, but some ask what purpose it serves or what benefit is there for the local congregation. That’s always fun trying to explain where it is spent. Sorry, I won’t get to vote at GA, neither the church or myself have the EXTRA funds to spend. By the way this is my 1st GA as an Ordained Bishop after 26 of ministry. Of course if the local church had kept the TOT there would have been sufficient funds. Wrong again, there are some other areas at the LOCAL church that could have wisely used those funds. I could not in clear conscience take the LOCAL church’s money to experience a GA. OK, I’m off my soapbox. We need less government at the expense of the LOCAL church. Perhaps if someone had to raise their funds from week to week, like the LOCAL church, they would budget the funds more wisely. Just my heartfelt opinion about a denomination I dearly love.

Bryan Strickland  on July 8th, 2008

Tim I whole heartily agree. the first church I went to pastor had 5 whole members and it was a struggle every week and I too have had to pay the bills there, but that state office didn’t seem to care. Not a how ya doing or any thing just where is our money. It’s not like that in the state I’m in now, and we have a great AB but how many pastors out there are in the same boat we once were.
P.S. I also dearly love this denomination as well and will be my first time to go to GA as well.

Monte Elswick  on July 8th, 2008

Missions, Our church has only begun to be involved in Missions. July 11th we will have two from our church board a plane and take a flight to Ecuador to help minister to the Indians and the children of Mi Tambo orphanage. This will be their fourth journey into South America.

I am thinking tonight as I write how far we have come as a church. Five years ago we would average around $1500 -$1800 dollars a month tithing. Now we are very seldom less than $3000. Last year we won an award for being the church that raised the most for missions in our area.

You may think it’s been easy, no it’s difficult sometimes to give to missions when you have to take a pay cut yourself, but somehow God always provides.

Our missionary is Bryan Hersey. Brother Hersey is a great man of dedication to the children of Ecuador. This year we will be taking medicine to distribute to the children.
I have never been to Ecuador, but my heart has been touched by the faces of the children I see in the photos our team brings back.

I understand the difficulty of giving. It is easier to give $5 when you make $50. It is easier to give $500 when you make $5000, but when you make $50,000 somehow the thinking changes, it becomes “OUR” money instead of GODS. And $5000 a month sure is difficult to write that check to General & State. Then turn around and write $2500 on top of that, it takes away $7000 of “OUR” money.
Money we could use for something here in our neighborhood. Now you probably think I’ve never had to write that huge check, but I have and that’s why I understand the difficulty.

Well where are we in the scriptures? Maybe, ” 1Co 16:3 And when I come, whomsoever ye shall approve by your letters, them will I send to bring your liberality unto Jerusalem,” gives a little insight.

Paul is talking about helping the poor people in another church in this chapter. The one word that sticks out is the word “liberality”, that word defined is “graciousness of manner or act, especially the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life.”
The divine influence upon the heart, and it’s reflection in the life, that says a lot. I do hope our leaders, ordained ministers, and General Assembly will allow the divine influence of God to reflect in their life this August and realize the importance of the World Mission of the Church of God, “Go into all the world”. To do that it takes money and I don’t begruge God of the 5% that our church gives to Missions even if I have to take a pay cut.

Eddie Dotson  on July 15th, 2008

I have been reading this discussion for a couple of hours and have just came across this site a few days ago. I thank everyone who has approached this with concern and dedication to opinion of financial integrity.
Personal, I have been in the COG for 30 years and from the beginning have had the belief that the %’s sent in were too high for the local church. For the small church $100 does matter each month contrary to popular belief. For the large church $5000.00 could start a new outreach and add staff for new field works in their perspective area. Let me say also, I have been faithful in each of these areas of %’s sent into local and general, but I believe there needs to be a transformation. Missions money should be free will and not regulated especially when it is not going to its designated location. If I did this on the local level it would be in-appropriate fiscal responsibility and there would be repercussions. I thank God for the COG, but as an Ordaned Bishop I respectfully disagree with this area of our system, and I concur that we need a change. Thank you!

Jerry Lawson  on July 19th, 2008

Bill,

As a member of the C-18 can you answer a couple of questions for me.

1) As a pastor who is seeking understanding of the finances of the COG, I have been summarily denied access to any financial accounting of the general fund. However, the Missions dept has been free-flowing with their financial accounting. I keep wondering, “If the general church now hides the $26M that it currently controls, how can the C-18 expect me to be in favor of giving them an additional $13M to hide. At least I know where 1/3 of the money is going now.” Can you comment to that line of reasoning?

2) At the “Top 100 churches conference” the EC was talking about a 6-8 year reduction, not including the 4 years that they have already taken since Mike Chapman’s proposal was unceremoniously burried at the 2004 GA. Why now are we looking at a 10 year reduction period? The extended time frame along with once again pitting world missions against the rest of the church makes me wonder if the “powers that be” really want anything to pass or are just hoping for yet another fiasco at General Assembly.

Bill, these are honest questions that I wonder about. Thank you for providing a forum for me to ask you about them.

travis johnson  on July 19th, 2008

I second the questions Jerry has.

Randy  on July 22nd, 2008

I am glad there is finally a legitimate forum for discussion of these important issues.I have one thought concerning Mission Representatives. I do not see the need for them. My church has supported several missionaries for over 20 years and we have never needed a Mission Representative to help raise funds or reach a missionary.I think am item of discussion should include the salary amounts for this position and do we need it.

Randy  on July 22nd, 2008

Concerning the 2 1/2 for WM. I thought Bro. Vaughn made it clear at the past GA that WM did not need this money and that WM would do well without it. Taking him at his word, why is there a need to reduce this percentage over 10 years - unless the General Hdqt receives money from WM that we pastors are not aware of. I know that the 2 1/2 we send to our state office is used for the general budget. This I feel is mis-appropriation of funds according to our COG minutes. But I am sure this will be addressed at the State Ministers meeting in my state. I hope the percentage to WM is not being used in the same manner by the Gen. Hdqt.

travis johnson  on July 22nd, 2008

Bro. Randy,

In response to this post:

Concerning the 2 1/2 for WM. I thought Bro. Vaughn made it clear at the past GA that WM did not need this money and that WM would do well without it. Taking him at his word, why is there a need to reduce this percentage over 10 years - unless the General Hdqt receives money from WM that we pastors are not aware of. I know that the 2 1/2 we send to our state office is used for the general budget. This I feel is mis-appropriation of funds according to our COG minutes. But I am sure this will be addressed at the State Ministers meeting in my state. I hope the percentage to WM is not being used in the same manner by the Gen. Hdqt.”

A couple observations:

1. After having seen the detailed 200+ page audit report for World Missions, I have concluded that World Missions spends their money better and with more accountability than any other COG denominational entity. Email Roland Vaughn and he’ll send you the same budget. You can read more about that here:

http://missionalcog.wordpress.com/2008/04/29/copy-of-the-detailed-audit-report-for-the-church-of-god/

2. Your conclusion about the EHM fund is absolutely correct.

3. I have no clue why the Executive Council determined that the heart of the local church wants to see the only two denominational mandated funds designated solely for Matthew 28:19-20 activities be eliminated. That was not the expression in 2006. It wasn’t the expression in 2004.

4. We certainly do want AND need the level of mandated fees sent into denominational entities decreased.

Bro. Randy, I’m praying for an opportunity at this General Assembly where all denominational budgets can share in the reduction together instead of targeting these two funds. And, I’m praying that we would correct the issue of spending the EHM budgets for items other than what it is designated for.

Darrl Ramey  on December 18th, 2008

I know I am late to this discussion but I find it interesting. My history with COG is limited. I do hear the “politics” of our denomination. I do know this that we send badly needed funds every month out to the denomination as well as the mortgage payments to a building that will be the COG’s asset. I am sure that many of the programs and ministries of the COG headquarters are great, however I do think we as a denomination realize that we weaken our church’s ability to accomplish its goals when we are sending our needed resources to fund another ministry and our local church’s ministry has to do without.

I think that instead of just reducing the funds we need to look at how to “ïnvest” them.

When it comes to monies an monthly tithes it sometimes can seem like taxes are at the state and federal governments. Only to hope to get some back in some program method.

If I say I need those monies at our local church then I should be able to justify it. What if we sent some of these percentages to a large collective fund, where all our districts monies go together in an interest bearing accounts for one year. The interest money can be used to support state needs.

If my church wants to do a professional church mailing or something to help promote the church then we fund the expense by “withdrawling a portion of it” out of the collective account based on what we put in. That way instead of just reducing the money from the churches we invest it, create income from interest and if the local church “needs” it then they can use it for benefical purposes and we won’t be “guilty of wasting money”. The FACT is if the local church grows then then denomination will be stronger and we will see more money coming in the SHQ and NHQ ’s.

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